Gemi wrote:
This is startting to get childish and out of hands. The "let's see who can find this small cut in a song" thing does not prove who is better in sycning songs.
I also have to agree with Rojoky113 that the syncing with the current Rebirth release is not perfect, and I'm not the only one. It'd be all fine with me for you hellrazor to claim to be the most awesome syncer ever, but you'd have to have work to base this claim on. The method Rojoky113 uses to sync songs is both easy and accurate and I would really recomend you try it out. You might be surprised on the results.
Since this pack has become a widely used tournament pack in different countries I'd like to see it synced as well as possible, but that clearly requires either a change of methods or a change of syncer, I'm sorry to say. I still respect you for the job you've done, but I hope you realize that there is still room for improvement.
Thank you for your support
hellrazor wrote:
1. If we did the competition that I suggest it would prove that I can indeed sync to the millisecond (if I actually can, maybe I can't and it's all in my head). If you insist a random number of cuts on one song is doable, I'm not wimping out.
Again, assuming you do manage it, it would prove that you can sync millisecond accurate, except it's only proving it in a situation where A) the songs being used are ideal B) you can be sure your BPM is right C) you know for a fact that there is one cut and only one cut for you to find and D) you know you have to work to make it as accurate as possible because you're credibility is on the line, and you have plenty of time to do so.
What it doesn't really prove is how well of a job you did on the 85 different songs in Rebirth where the situation is less than ideal and the syncing challenges much more varied and difficult.
If you want to really test yourself, lets do a random 5-10 cuts between 3-15 milliseconds on each of the songs and see if you can hang, because that really wouldn't be a problem for me, since you're obviously going to continue to waste my time by arguing over this and pursuing your syncing challenges instead of actually defending your specific syncing jobs on these songs, might as well go all the way.
hellrazor wrote:
2. I am up for a blind test of file vs. file but it would be nearly impossible to make this accurate. It's been proven that ITG players typically prefer late synchs and DDR players perfer early synchs since both of those games have a tendancy to be off by a certain amount both ways. Plus you have a friendbase who regards your files and thus they are used to playing songs you synched. Not to mention if one file has BPM's and Stops with several significant figures it would be easy to guess whose file it was and there is a bias in the community against me since I come off as boastful.
You like to throw a lot of generalizations around. I know a lot of people who regularly play both ITG and DDR, would you like to tell them how they prefer their syncing? The syncing tendencies between the two games is pretty common knowledge, and most good players I know are aware of that and play each game accordingly. Plus, while we are technically using an ITG cabinet to play this the syncing is inheritly our own. Not to mention early/late is an offset issue, while currently we are discussing issues more BPM related.
Considering that this is a project made for the community and not you personally, if community testing reveals a general consensus on what is synced better then shouldn't it make sense to use that syncing? What my concern is for making this accurate is being able to put together enough results for this sort of test to be statistically sure of a clear winner.
Even if you feel paranoid that tons of people are out to get at you and would purposely violate any honor system and thus don't want to conduct tests by just distributing the files, doing something like putting the two files on a USB card simply labeled <song>1 and <song>2 (switching it up, of course) and taking it to the arcade for people to play would make it very hard to tell which file belongs to who. But I find it pretty convenient for you that it's everyone being biased, not that maybe your syncing isn't all it's cracked up to be.
hellrazor wrote:
3. It took a few minutes to think of a fair sync challenge, Dance Praise is still a work in progress. And I intend to check out your method, however I have little faith in programs that aren't StepMania since there are possibly inherrent errors that can compound. For instance there was a guy who created his own mix of Tsugaru and his BPM was off, he claimed that he created the song in fruityloops and knew the BPM exactally, however there was an error between what fruityloops gave him vs. the true BPM of the song.
This is funny of you to say considering something that happened to me recently.
Someone I know had a PIU simfile that he said he was having trouble syncing and sent it to me. I looked at it in DDS real quick and told him the BPM, but he got back to me saying that didn't work. Well I played the sim in SM and lo and behold, it got offsync as crap. After fiddling around with it a bit, you know what I found? There was something wrong with the music file itself and Stepmania did not seem to be playing it correctly, I had to re-encode it into a different format and suddenly it played perfectly. Basically, the one time there seemed to be an issue with my syncing,
Stepmania ended up being to blame, not the program I used.
I already told you that I regularly double-check things between the Stepmania second read-out and more than one program, and I cannot recall ever having a problem. Also if you don't trust anything other than Stepmania, how can you trust that Malachai is being accurate with what he is doing for your syncing competition? He would be using the same manner of program.
If you really think sitting there tapping on a keyboard is a better idea then be my guest, but I don't think you'll find many people agreeing with you.
hellrazor wrote:
I've synched numerous songs with my method, I've pretty much sealed that my method is uber-precise and finding miniscule song cuts precisely is as hard as anything I do and therefore a justified test for ensuring synching, plus it is not subject to any opinions just simple hard facts.
Your uber-precision doesn't seem very sealed to me, considering you yourself are someone with self-professed "sub-par pad timing" and "no keyboard skills," and you've had several very good players (myself included) point out a lot of problems, like IM, Rynker, people on AIJ, etc.
hellrazor wrote:
How about this as a challenge, convince the ITG Rebirth team that your synchs are better than mine, shouldn't be hard since my values are a "total mess".
Actually, you're right it shouldn't be, thing is I have not heard any of them say anything at all in this discussion. I'd love to talk with people other than you, assuming you have any pretty good players on the Rebirth team they should not have much of a problem finding the issues I am talking about with me telling them what to look for.
EDIT: In fact, I seem to recall Malachai saying he uses Audacity at one point. While it's not a program I'm very familiar with, downloading and looking at it he definitely should be able to use it to see a lot of the problems I am talking about. Malachai, since hellrazor apparently has enough confidence in your use of said program to trust your accuracy for his competition, would you mind if I PM'd you some instructions/things to look at so you can begin to confirm these problems for yourself?
Everything I listed off in my last post was not just an issue that I found when I synced Rebirth, but things that I went back and confirmed by playing your files, and I can't even recall one where the issue was not obvious the first time I played them, barring where I had to stop after playing a little to re-adjust your offset.
hellrazor wrote:
I apolagize for missing the song-cut in bananna bay, I didn't spend as much time on it as I should have.
I found this cut in about one to two minutes. That's one file concluded, would you care to actually go back and play your files and specifically deny any of the other claims I am making about any of them? Or will that end up being your excuse for every one?
hellrazor wrote:
Either way I will accept any sync challenges as long as the playing field is fair.
Let's start with this, go back and play these and tell me with confidence that there is no cut in Beautiful Morning around second 55, that the cut in Galaxy9 is not actually around beat 111-112, that Aurora's slowdown doesn't have an incorrect BPM and that the second half is not 10ms off from the first, that the BPM you use in Ice Cold and This Must Be a Dream are correct, and that Palindrome is actually synced during the BPM changes.
Or if you don't like those six random picks, dispute any problem I claimed in the last post. I will gladly provide as much proof as I can.
